Window Rattles when Partly Down
As with most things mechanical there are usually numerous possible causes of why something isn't working the way it should - but I guess we all know that, right? Well, in this case, one of the other things could be something called a "roll up guide". You can buy them and see their location in Automotion catalogs. There are two per window and are mounted about 2" below the top ledge of the door panel. Expensive little suckers, for what they are. Basically a small metal bracket with two felt-covered rubber bumps which get worn down to nothing, over time. They are held in place by two socket-head screws and it is a bit tricky to get them out and in. You have to remove the door panel and the rubber gasket that runs along the window to gain access to the screws. Small hands with long fingers are a definite advantage. The new ones fit VERY tight but will get conditioned/bent very quickly. Readjustment of the window may be required after you install the new guides. You'll have to loosen up those 10mm bolts gain, run the window all the way up, make sure it is seated properly and fully, then tighten up the 10mm bolts again. That should do the trick. Oh, by the way, on my 79 model the "down-stop" for the window travel allows the glass to ride off one of the roll up guides and if you come back up with the glass you could rip off the felt covered pad and be back where you started, plus having wasted considerable amount of $$$$$ I have temporarily built up the down-stop block and try to remember not to roll the window down all the way until I install a permanent fix. (home made down-stop block) I have to assume this had been corrected later on and newer cars do not have this problem.
*Jan Svec, 79-auto, guards red; Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I just finished chasing down rattles in the last door on the topless shark. In most cases with the coupe I had the windows either all the way up or all the way down. With the convertible it is nice to put the windows part way to redirect the wind. So I finally had to get into the doors to see what makes them tick.
There are many things in the doors that can rattle including the latches and miles will cause almost all of the nuts and bolts to come loose.
I followed these steps.
1. First I tightened the door latches so that the doors close tight. On the coupe this included shimming out the door gaskets near the top of the door to cut down wind noise at high speeds.
2. The outside door handle on one side was loose. The theft protection panel by the door lock needs to be removed to access the handle and the window rolled down. There are two hex bolts that are tough to get too, but tightening these fixes a loose door handle.
3. The bumper guides in the top of the door had lost their rubber parts. These I repaired them from parts I found at the hardware store - some stick on rubber bumpers and some sticky felt was much cheaper and $30 each that these cost. At first I thought that this would fix the whole problem but even adjusting them tight, while it made the window action up and down smoother it did not take away the rattle when the window was part way down.
4. I tighten all of the bolts holding the window mechanism and put blue Loctite on all of them. If they came loose now we will not be able to blame Porsche. There is an adjustment at the bottom of the window regulator that can be moved up a bit since the window keeps running down and putting pressure on the door even after it is disappeared into the door. I am sure that the constant flexing is not that good for future metal fatigue.
5. There are a number of wires (and vacuum tubes on the older models) that can rattle. These had been rerouted inside both of my doors. They are supposed the run alone the top of the door with clips holding them in place. On my 78 Porsche had added some padding below the wires - this was missing from the 86. I added in a couple of strips of foam and some tie straps. Every little bit helps.
6. While in there I took the opportunity to lubricate every thing including the power door locks. The power door locks will fail it they get stuck and cause the doors to unlock.
7. The final thing that made the most difference was the replacement of the two plastic runners on the vertical bar. These have very tight tolerances and very small contact areas. The new ones are tight when installed and immediately remove all of the play in the windows. Part numbers 928.537.260.02 and 928.537.289.02 (these are right hand for the left 01). The parts cost less than $30 a door and are available from our good friends at DEVEK or your local dealer. I was able to get the left side tightened up using a toothpick in the rubber portion of the lower guide to tighten the tolerances and a tie strap of the upper guide. But given the low cost of these parts, ease of replacement and the end results it is well worth the investment on new parts.
8. Both doors were missing the plastic inner liners. These act as moisture barriers and can block moisture that gets inside the door during rain storms. The inner portion of the door panel is made of material that simply melts and rots under wet conditions. I made a new moisture barrier out of some 4 mill plastic - again, from the hardware store.
As a result the windows no longer rattle when first rolling down and operate like a Mercedes through the entire cycle. There is no rattle or play when the windows are partly down.
There are many adjustments on the window position. When installing the new parts be sure to test the operation before putting the panel back on. I counted at least nine adjustments that can be made when installing the windows so these need to be balanced
Pictures to follow - sure is nice to drive the car and not hear a lot of rattles when I hit a bump.
For my winter project this year (albeit a small one), I chose to address the dreaded window rattle (driver's side only). There has been much discussion over the past couple years on appropriate remedies, I chose to go the whole magillia and replace the window guides which appeared to be the culprit as the felt on the "bumpers" appeared in tact. The original guides were VERY sloppy on the window rod in comparison to the new ones.
The job was going smoothly, ahead of schedule, until replaceing the last bolt in the upper guide. Both bolts in the upper guide, mate to large nuts which are recessed into the window and metal window bracket. As I was trying to "find the hole" for the bolt, I pushed the large nut out of the recessed portion of the window. "DOH"!!! "Not too bad", you say, except unless your fingers are 12" long you can't reach behind the window to place the large nut back in it's recess. I'm certain the window guys have a tool for this, but I didn't have it, so my only option was to pull out the window. So I did, without incident, remove the window, place the nut back in the recess, then try and put the window back in with the nuts in place. There in lies the challange, pushing the window back into the door while keeping the nuts in place. Three times I tried and each time the nuts would pop out of their recess - answer - epoxy. I epoxied the nuts in place, waited over night to cure. The next morning the window was securely in place in 15 minutes.
Following are a few tips (Model Year 1989):
1)left side (driver in the US) Upper guide part No. 928 537 289 02 Lower guide part No. 928 537 259 02
2) I did not need to support the window when the guides were removed. The arm from the "window lifter" runs in the same plate that holds the guide nuts in place and supported the window with the guides unbolted. To unbolt the guides, move the window so a wrench can easily access the bolts through the door access.
3) To remove the guides once they have been unbolted, I removed the entire rod. Unbolt the upper rod (two allen head bolts). The bottom of the rod fits over a pin welded into the bottom of the door. There is a rubber bushing inside the bottom of the rod which fits snuggly over this pin. There is also a 3" square rubber "stop" that fits over the bottom of the rod. The lower window guide may hit this stop at it's furthest "down" position. After the "upper" rod bolts were removed, I gently moved the rod back and forth and worked the rod off the pin in the bottom of the door.
4) Once the rod is removed, note the position of the upper and lower guides, remove the old and on with the new.
5) I used faucet grease to lube up the rod that the guides run on. Wait till you have the rod and guides bolted up before applying grease. This way you have more grease on the guides and less on your clothes.
6) If you have to remove the window, you need to have the window almost all the way down to slide the window lifter arm off the window bracket.
7) check your felt bumpers - window all the way down, pull out inside window seal, loosen bumpers with allen wrench
8) When re-installing the window, I used a piece of wood to "open" the window slot in the door a little further to give me some room. The bracket which holds the guide nuts onto the glass is a very tight fit going into the door. The factory manual says loosen or remove the felt bumpers - DON"T REMOVE THEM. You run the risk of scratching the glass if they are removed, just loosen them. Having the inside window seal removed also helped give me more room.
9) The window goes in "nose first" from outside the door - there is a pic in the manual.
10) When adjusting the window; with the window guide bolts barely loose, I ran the window to the fully closed position. I then snugged up the bolts and checked for free travel up and down the rod.
11) Watch the charge on your battery. I had not driven the shark in a couple of weeks and the constant "up/down" of the window ran the battery down.
I just figured out why everyone needs a second shark. So you may apply knowledge gained when doing it "the first time".
Joe Rausa '89S4
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